An interview with Peter J. Carroll

By fuzzbuddy

Chaos Magic

 MQ: Can you sum up your current thinking on your evolving model of 3-D time? 

Peter Carroll: It seems to me that any attempt to explain how magic works must entail some revision or reinterpretation of the conventional and scientific models of reality, a witch is a rebel in physics, as they say. For many years I have wondered if the conventional view of time lacks sufficient sophistication to explain either physics or magic. Most of the popular books on science are fairly upbeat and confident, even triumphalist, about the current state of our knowledge of reality, however most serious professional cosmologists and quantum physicists seem actually quite depressed and downbeat about their models. Over the last 20 years both these subjects have run into severe difficulties. Cosmology now contains a huge number of more or less ad hoc assumptions masquerading as theories. Superstring 'theory' has conspicuously failed to say anything useful about quantum physics. All we have to show for the last 20 years is a pile of baroque and obtuse hypotheses which we can not test or use, and which have very little explanatory power. I feel confident that much of what passes for theory in these fields will eventually have to be discarded, like the theory of epicycles or phlogiston theory were. I have put forward the idea that time has the same dimensionality as space, that they both have 3 dimensions. This simple yet radical hypothesis does appear to have some explanatory power, yet it implies something so fundamental that it affects virtually every branch of our understanding of how the universe works, both in physics and in magic. Even if it proves useful, it will plainly take sometime for this revolutionary idea to achieve widespread acceptance. 

MQ: You mentioned somewhere how teleportation is going to have to become reality for any serious advancement in space travel. I read recently that Google may be contemplating and/or already working on teleportation. When do you think this may be more realistic and not sound so Science-fictioney?

 Peter Carroll: Plainly we can never get humans anywhere far from this planet by trying to muscle our way across ordinary space with reaction thrust vehicles. If interstellar travel is possible then it will have to depend on something far more like teleportation than rockets, even nuclear rockets are far too puny for the task. I've seen references to various schemes for quantum teleportation where a copy of one or more particles is generated instantaneously some distance away. We may eventually be able to achieve this with substantial objects but to use it for interstellar transport would still require that a receiving station be dispatched on a centuries long voyage to the destination first. 

MQ: I gather that your much awaited online Arcanorium College is due to start later this year. What are your hopes for this, and can you let us know of any other teachers you have lined up for this? 

Peter Carroll: There are 8 of us working on the project, plus technical support. We hope to provide a facility that will remain open all year with about 3 seminars going on dealing with various subjects at any time. Members will also have access to library and social facilities and perhaps things like a gymnasium for magical games. Each of the 8 of us intends to give 2 or 3 seminars per year on various magical topics. We hope to get about 500 members from around the world, and this should keep administrative costs low. Ramsey Dukes will participate, the others I'm keeping as a surprise for the launch, despite the rife speculation. 

MQ: You've now led three MLA courses, how have you found the medium of the Internet for teaching Magic concepts? 

Peter Carroll: I have been very pleasantly surprised at just how useful and productive this medium has proved. The volume of posts and the quality of the exchanges seemed outstanding to me. On the plus side it negates spatial separation and to a considerable extent, time zone problems. My only reservation concerns the so called 'lurkers', those 10% who seem to register for courses and then never post a word. When I have taught face to face I've always tried to draw out the silent ones, ask them what they think and so on, however in these internet forums it seems impolite to do so, thus I have left them to it, but it always feels a bit odd, plus if they say nothing, you have no idea of their identity at all. 

MQ: You are working on a new book aren't you? How's that coming along? 

Peter Carroll: I'm always working on a new book, I never stop collecting ideas and playing around with them. It's more a case of when will I draw a line round some of it and organise it into a book. The main factor with much of what I'm working on at the moment is waiting for experimental confirmation for the scientific stuff from the next generation of particle machines and space based telescopes. I may alternatively gamble and publish some predictions. 

MQ: Who/What has influenced your "occult" thinking over the years besides Science and Western-style Magic eg:religions, obscure ancient ideas, weird channelings...? 

Peter Carroll: Vajrayana (Tibetan) Buddhism has certainly influenced me, not so much as an ethical or religious system but more as a series of ideas about esoterics itself. I spent about a year in North India with the Tibetan exile community, reading from their extensive library of works translated into English. Their philosophy has great depth and eclecticism and sophistication underneath all the gaudy trappings and baroque symbolism. 

MQ: Would you say that one of the biggest limits to magic after a certain level would be imagination? 

Peter Carroll: I've seen far too many occultists let their imagination run away with them over the decades. In many cases I'd recommend more hard work and less imagination. 

MQ: In one of your books you mention briefly that you would describe humanity as being in a certain stage of evolution. I forget the phrase you used, but almost a "higher" or more technological form of shamanism, that sounds really encouraging to me, can you expand on what you mean. Is it similar to what others might call Crowley's concept of a New Aeon? 

Peter Carroll: I'd describe humanity at a stage where various sections of it are at very different stages of evolution. We have a lot of aeons going on at once at the moment. I consider that the most evolved viewpoint around at the moment consists of an essentially post-religious post-modernist relativism, well informed about science but equally well aware of the metaphysical and the metapsychological dimensions of existence. I personally call that viewpoint chaoism, but then I would, wouldn't I. I hope that there is further to go, but it distresses me to note that large sections of humanity seem stuck in the middle ages or worse. 

MQ: What would you say is the difference (if any) between say excellent theatre/art/music and Magic? 

Peter Carroll: Well someone once described scientists as dull people with interesting ideas and artists as interesting people with dull ideas. That's of course wildly unfair in many cases; but let's face it, the lyrics to most songs seem pretty naff if you read them, even though the sound may be pleasing. Magicians often seem to try a bit too hard to appear interesting and to have interesting ideas, and thus end up behaving plain crazy. Excellence in art must always remain a matter of subjective taste; at least in magic one can often compare intent with result objectively, or at least statistically. 

MQ: What advice would you give to Psychonauts just starting out, as to what principles to practise or focus on? 

Peter Carroll: Practise visualisation till it hurts and then continue until it doesn't. Learn to still the mind to receive the subtle things it has to offer. Organise your thoughts about the subject, and be prepared to revise them.

 For more about Peter Carroll go to Specularium

People who have attended Peter's courses meet up informally at Ideosphere

provisional launch date for Arcanorium College - September 2006